[BIP-XXX] - Orb Collective - Moving Forward

Summary

This proposal seeks to provide facts to the Balancer Community to empower it to answer two questions:

  1. Has Orb Collective’s leadership enabled it to properly function as a Service Provider (SP) to meet the needs of the Balancer DAO; and
  2. Should governance continue Orb’s status quo as a critical SP that has received a significant amount of funding to date.

If the answer to both questions is “no”, a vote in favor of this BIP will cause:

  • The termination of Orb as an SP as of the 31st of July;
  • Payments to Orb to require monthly approval from Balancer governance after Orb’s leadership has provided detailed plans on spending projections for the next month and reported on spending for the previous month. To be noted, the previous monthly spending report is for evaluation purposes, not for retroactive governance approval;
  • The reconciliation of unused, returned, or unvested assets paid to or being held by Orb, including USDC and BAL per** per BIP-20, BIP-38, BIP-33, and BIP-75 or otherwise.

Background

Orb was retained by the Balancer Foundation nine months ago as one of the most critical SPs for the Balancer ecosystem by BIP-20: Funding Proposal of Orb Collective. BIP-20 covered Marketing (and sub-areas of Brand Identity & Visual Style, and Content Creation & Social Media), Integrations (including Documentation & Community Support), and Governance, Risk & Compliance (GRC)/Operations.

Marketing

Until a few days ago, marketing was one of Orb’s main responsibilities. In April 2023, Orb leadership announced they had “developed a new vision for how marketing at Orb will evolve and iterate.” However, on May 4, 2023, Orb leadership announced they were terminating their marketing services immediately. They also disclosed an employee exodus where more than 27% of their employees had resigned, including all the marketing employees they included in their budget update.

Orb’s Q2 2023 budget, posted on April 25, had it paying more than $90,000.00 to marketing employees.

However, all its marketing employees are gone. There is no indication that Orb leadership will revise and reduce their Q2 marketing budget and any July 2023 wind-down expenses.

Marketing - Brand Identity & Visual Style

The post from 0xmui in the Balancer Forum gives concrete examples of steps that can be taken to align Balancer’s brand and marketing strategies. A recent comment in the same post from Beethoven X underscores the importance of a strategic and cohesive approach to brand and marketing. BIP-254 retained Beethoven as SP for a number of efforts, including marketing.

None of Orb’s marketing updates mentions a study or initiative to update or re-think the Brand Identity or Visual Style. (See Orb Collective August 2022 Update, Orb Collective September 2022 Update, Orb Collective October 22 Update, Orb Collective November 2022 Update, Orb Collective December 2022 Update, Orb Collective January 2023 Update, Orb Collective March 2023 High-Level Updates, Orb Marketing Strategy for Remainder of Q1, Orb Collective February 2023 Marketing Update, Orb Collective March 2023 Marketing Update).

This comment highlights how Orb leadership has allowed Balancer’s brand to fall behind its competition.

Marketing - Content Creation & Social Media

Orb leadership’s reporting on marketing strategy and results fails to address or explain any difference between what they proposed to accomplish v. what they actually delivered. For instance, Orb leadership outlined the following for their planned Twitter campaigns in “Marketing Strategy for Remainder of Q1”:

Orb leadership reported on the performance of their above Q1 Twitter strategy by sharing the following “results” in their February and March updates:

The Balancer Community wasn’t informed about what happened with the items proposed, if the goals were accomplished, if any issues were encountered, or if they used any new content not initially planned.

BeethovenX also proposed an initial marketing approach with a leaner budget and has recently advanced an integrated view of the ecosystem, tools, and goals to accomplish Balancer’s marketing goals.

To date, Orb has spent over $479,000.00 on Marketing.

Integrations

Regular reporting of metrics and KPIs is needed to enable the Balancer Community to understand what has been and is being achieved, and what the next steps are.

Regarding integrations, the community doesn’t know if everything previously planned by Orb leadership was properly executed, or if there were pain points or delays in the roadmap. This type of information has not been regularly presented by Orb leadership in their updates. Further examples of these issues can be found in the Orb Collective March 2023 Integrations Update and the Orb Collective February 2023 Integrations Update.

Whilst it is possible to verify some activity on the Orb Collective Github page, the lack of proper reporting makes it difficult to verify the efficiency of how time was allocated.

One of the key headings on the form shared by the Integrations team for its reporting is titled “Increase Balancer’s market share” - it itemizes the Integrations team’s activity in this broad area of “market share” for that month. The reporting, however, doesn’t help the community evaluate the performance of the Integrations team. It omits explanations of how the outlined activities increased Balancer market share, why certain activities were chosen over others, the time and resource costs, whether the specific activities came in over or under budget, and, if so, how. Matters concerning Integrations also attract little, if any, public discussion in Discord or on the Balancer forum.

Documentation & Community Support are mentioned in BIP-20 and BIP-75 as Orb’s responsibilities. Proper developer support is important. When a developer asks for help, response time is slow, as seen in this Discord channel. Questions are mostly answered by non-Orb contributors.

Current documentation was rewritten by other Balancer DAO contributors earlier this year. Notwithstanding the substantial efforts of these contributors to overhaul critical components of Documentation, the work that Orb leadership agreed to perform is incomplete, as the onboarding process for new participants and partners remains unfriendly to users.

To date, Orb has spent over $545,000.00 on 5 Integrations employees.

GRC & Operations

As per Orb Collective November 2022 Update, “Part of Orb’s role in the ecosystem is to protect the resiliency and growth of the DAO by creating a strategy for ecosystem regulatory and legal risks and as well managing the corporate governance and risks for the agents of the DAO and ecosystem stakeholders.”

Educational and outreach opportunities for the community appear to have been largely ignored by Orb leadership in relation to GRC & Ops, particularly on the public forum. There have been BIPs where Orb leadership should have ensured a comment from a GRC standpoint was offered, like BIP-146.

Orb leadership has not presented KPIs to track GRC interaction and performance. Reports in relation to GRC have been sparse on content and generated little interaction with the community. Examples include: Orb Collective November 2022 Update - its GRC section, Orb Collective January 2023 Update - its GRC section, Orb Collective March 2023 GRC Updates, Orb Collective February 2023 GRC Update, and Orb Collective February 2023 Ops Update

Another example is the Balancer Maxis’ proposal for the new Governance process, which was adopted via BIP-163 without a forum comment from Orb Collective or any other open interaction between Orb leadership and the community.

Orb leadership is responsible for ensuring clarity is provided in the Balancer ecosystem in relation to its Governance. Yet, some SP funding requests, particularly from Orb leadership, lack clarity on the purposes and terms of the funding and services that the SP will provide or has already provided. The Orb leadership funding requests are often rushed and/or inconsistent with the DAO’s SP funding template and more recently adopted Governance process. Some examples are: ambiguities between BIP-20 and the SLA for Orb incorporated by reference therein; BIP-38 (in comparison to the more detailed and much less ambiguous BIP-55), and BIP-33 and BIP-75 (which themselves seem appropriate for Q3 & Q4 2022 budgeting requests for marketing, but it is unclear why these were not done for any quarter thereafter); BIP-264; BIP-275; and the ONsite proposal, where Orb asked for more than $93,500 in additional funding for the planning of future onsite events. More than 2 weeks have passed and Orb leadership has not yet confirmed it will revise the proposal so the requested funds flow to OpCo rather than directly to Orb.

On May 4, Orb leadership announced that 3 of Orb’s 11 employees had left. Just 10 days earlier, when Orb’s leadership shared the Q2 budget on April 25, they knew at least 1 GRC & Ops employee was departing. Yet, Orb leadership inexplicably omitted this from its Q2 budget post. Orb leadership has not expressed any plan to reduce its USD $529,825.00 budget for Q2 - $460,500.00 allocated as compensation now for just 8 people rather than the 11 identified in the Q2 budget post.

On the same day the Q2 budget was shared, Orb leadership posted BIP-275 and asked to immediately spend more than $600,000 of BAL as liquid compensation for employees rather than on the annual cliff/vesting terms that were previously agreed. Orb leadership later reduced the liquid BAL request to over $44,000 BAL to pay 1 GRC & Ops employee and more than $2,640 Bal to pay 1 Marketing employee who was inexplicably omitted from Orb’s Q2 budget. More than a week has passed, yet Orb has failed to honor its agreement to provide further details that respond to community questions concerning BIP-275.

The Q2 2023 budget update allocated more than $195,000.00 to Orb GRC & Ops employees for Q2 2023. However, 33% of Orb’s employees in this area have already resigned. There is no indication that Orb leadership will reduce Orb’s GRC & Ops budget for Q2 2023.

To date, Orb has spent over $750,000.00 on 3 GRC & Ops employees.

Financial reporting of the Orb Collective

The Orb reports and the Orb funding proposal (BIP-20) demonstrate that Orb leadership’s reporting form and standards obscure the community’s ability to assess Orb leadership’s current and past spending.

While there is one report on spending for the period of August, September, and October 2022 that is more detailed, we can see there is no report for November and December 2022 spending. For Q1 2023, there is only a forecast of the spending, published at the end of January 2023.

There are no specific breakdowns by compensation for each department or each employee. Instead, we see departmental breakdowns of costs that group together compensation and operating expenses, yet never isolate either expense category by department. In fact, the only disclosures we see on compensation pertain to the overall compensation of the entire employee group; these disclosures are usually prospective and, therefore, not definite.

Orb leadership’s financial reporting makes it impossible to conclusively determine how much Orb leadership, including its CEO, has earned for the last 9 months and is slated to earn through 7/31/23.

There are further spending requests, BIP-33 and BIP-75 for the marketing department for Q3 and Q4 2022, that appear to be add-ons to the funding requests made in BIP-20, but the add-on nature of these expenses wasn’t explicitly disclosed in the two BIPs. BIP-20, while not breaking down the funding request per department, was already quoting a marketing department of 3.5 FTE, which is the same marketing department quoted in BIP-33 and BIP-75.

The only general accounting number is given in BIP-275, in which the CEO of Orb assesses that, for 2022, the total amount of BAL allocated to Orb was 398,257, and 295,491 was allocated to employees subject to 1-yr-cliff and annual vesting. However, the assessment omitted any breakdown of cliff or vesting calculations/breakdowns and more than a week passed with Orb’s CEO failing to answer any of the questions he agreed on 5/1 to answer that were raised in response to his post.

There is often overlap between Orb’s departments and the words that Orb leadership uses to identify service areas, making it difficult to determine who is supposed to be doing what, in what department, for how much, and when.

Further investigation is required to determine: (a) how much funding Orb has received in both USDC and BAL and the status of the BAL in terms of employee allocation, and cliff and vesting schedules, (b) its actual expenditures for specific personnel compensation, and (c) the services and other deliverables, goods, equipment or materials it obtained for or on behalf of the Balancer DAO.

Specification

A “yes” vote authorizes the following specification:

  • The termination of Orb as an SP as of the 31st of July;
  • Payments to Orb to require monthly approval from Balancer governance after Orb’s leadership has provided detailed plans on spending projections for the next month and reported on spending for the previous month. To be noted, the previous monthly spending report is for evaluation purposes, not for retroactive governance approval;
  • The reconciliation of unused, returned, or unvested assets paid to or being held by Orb, including USDC and BAL per** per BIP-20, BIP-38, BIP-33, and BIP-75 or otherwise.
13 Likes

Thank you @auramaxi for the throughout research. Makes it very clear how information is scattered and hard to find. Being a Foundation Director Member, I always pushed for transparency, and it really pains me to see so much information often misplaced from public reach. Due to my seat, I will abstain to comment on the merits of this proposal, but rather raise some concerns to better outline the specifications and address its feasibility.

BAL Governance can’t put under BeethovenX’s scope to transition personnel, and they could also choose by themselves not to acquire new staff. I believe any transition oversight will fall under OpCo as the contractor for Orb, and it should have the capacity to do so, in case a vote passes.

Orb’s contract per BIP-20 requests “a transition buffer of 3 months in which Orb receives its scheduled funding to ensure the completion of open projects and a smooth hand-off of processes and responsibilities.”

If Orb’s current structure is not to be funded anymore, we are already into those 90d, as it will be winding out in July. Orb hasn’t proposed a funding request for another epoch, effectively taking the risk of having a Governance down-vote and giving its employees a shorter grace period.

That being said, additional info is needed, indeed…

In order to act on this transition, OpCo multisign will need more information on the reduced/current headcount as specified above to either authorize or halt future payments.

IIUC, in effect, a yes-vote on this proposal states that Orb needs to focus their work for the remainder of Year 1 in transition and offboarding, without any expectations of renewed contracts.

4 Likes

Hello everyone,

I’m delighted to see some action on this front. Trust shouldn’t be taken for granted in DAOs, and this proposal is a consequence of the unresolved discussions we had earlier regarding Orbs work with Balancer.

Orb leadership’s financial reporting makes it impossible to conclusively determine how much Orb leadership, including its CEO, has earned for the last 9 months and is slated to earn through 7/31/23.

I’d be interested to know @immutbl’s standpoint regarding this matter before a vote goes live.

4 Likes

Thank you, @0xDanko, for your valuable insights. We agree that the proposal should not impose any obligation on BeethovenX, or any other SP, to provide any transition services or retain any Orb or other personnel as part of the transition. From our perspective, we understand that to accomplish a transition from Orb, all transition SPs would have to fully cooperate with OpCo and the Balancer Foundation.

Because we are within 3 months of 7/31 and Orb has not sought to renew its SLA, we assumed it was clear that Orb’s services for the Balancer DAO will not continue beyond 7/31. You also bring up a good point about Orb’s submission of a revised budget. As the Balancer Foundation is a counterparty to Orb’s SLA, it has the standing to ask Orb to provide a revised budget. We believe OpCo can request one, too.

5 Likes

Hey @auramaxi,

We’re going to create an updated version of our recent Q2 financial update and a breakdown of our BAL allocation and share them by Friday EOD EST.

Orb contributor comp is covered through July 31 based on the DAO’s vote on our proposal; we’ll be updating our request from OpCo for June, as we do every month to account for cost savings.

We account for past savings and projected future savings by adjusting the invoices we send to the OpCo.

Accounting is closed for each month usually in the 2nd week of the next month as there is movement on P&L until then. So our June invoice will reflect April spending and our updated forecast.

We’re also happy to support the release of unspent BAL that isn’t allocated to vesting plans for active contributors. We have no intention to continue working as an SP for Balancer after July 31.

4 Likes

Hey guys,

I currently work in the Integrations team of Orb, so my view may be different from you guys in this matter.

First, the proposal to cut/oversees Orb’s funds in the next three months hurts Balancer’s governance process, since there is the clause mentioned by Danko. Also, it interferes with the autonomy of two SPs (Beets and Orb) which is opposed to the resilient architecture of SPs, in the first place. Governance exists to approve the budget of trusted SPs, and if veBAL holders are disappointed with the results of an SP, the recommended action is: do not approve the next budget. If DAO wants to micromanage an SP, fine, but it shows that this ecosystem is not as decentralized as it should be.

Second, with all the respect to Beets and their members, It’s weird to ask governance to approve the move of us, employees of an SP, to another SP. AFAIK, Beets didn’t buy Orb, they’re two independent entities, it’s not an M&A operation. Besides, I wasn’t approached by Beets to be hired by them, so this piece of this proposal is a bit weird for me.

That said, I think this whole process of dismissing Orb is not being well conducted and the ecosystem is assuming the risk of losing valuable assets, engineers with years of experience in the Balancer protocol. It’s an intangible investment, which will take some time for the ecosystem to pay off by training new people.

Sorry for my lack of political skills and for any imprecise information, but as someone deeply affected by this proposal, I think I should put my thoughts in the forum.

15 Likes

Only a few days ago @immutbl requested additional BAL to fund contributors without context. Now the tone shifted completely:

Those 2 actions, in combination with the facts outlined by @auramaxi give us a rather disturbing picture of the misconduct of Orb’s management. I have been pointing out those “too big to fail” flaws of Orb from day 1 and urged the ecosystem participants to properly handle DAO funds. What happened is that Orb dissolved itself slowly: first the BizDev team, then some other contributors and finally the marketing team. There has been something brewing up slowly … and now it has gone too far to handle.

I met many of Orb’s contributors at Barcelona and they are incredibly talented. It hurts me to see that mostly mismanagement by leadership and miscommunication got us where we are today with this proposal. As a member of the foundation I want to make sure that we can get everything “back to order” as best as possible. The community needs to decide how this will happen. But it seems Orb’s leadership made a clear signal now to bail out without any arguments to “why” when confronted with issues pointed out by Aura contributors. I am still baffled at the quote mentioned above.

I agree that this doesn’t seem ideal from your point of view. It’s a mere suggestion by Aura, but probably can be changed until it goes to a vote. I believe that passionate ecosystem contributors will find ways to integrate / rearrange their affiliation with Balancer accordingly. Doesn’t have to be with Beets IMO.

I totally feel you as you are directly affected by this difficult situation we are currently dealing with. It is however telling that a passionate contributor like you has to say more than @immutbl on this matter. As I stated above, we as a community can become stronger and more resilient by now laying out a good plan on how to retain amazing talent like the people from the integrations team while disbanding more inefficient entities. We all agree that your work is essential for the ecosystem. Let’s find ways to make it work!

All in all, this process of disbanding Orb will be messy but obviously needed for a more healthy DAO in the long term.

Edit: corrected some typos

7 Likes

Hey @joaobrunoah. From reading everything above it seems the biggest concern/issue with Orb has been the failure of leadership to understand the decentralised context in which they are working. This is a DAO. Orb leadership has failed to communicate why Orb is important, and has now made the decision to cut the relationship with Balancer DAO.

Being that this is a decentralised context, there are a lot of ways that individuals who would prefer to remain in the Balancer Ecosystem can attempt to do so. Anyone is welcome to request funding from the DAO for a new SP and/or project and the Grants Committee also has budget to fund promising work.

Further it seems clear that there would be room in other service providers for people/projects that have a clear roadmap and are likely to offer a good return on investment or are seen as important.

It’s a shame that Orb leadership has chosen to just kind of rage quit and be in-transparent here, but that’s kind of how it is. This is how this works.

It could be a lot worse. Look at Sushi.

Balancer still has a number of service providers and teams that are working productively to keep things going and move things forward and there is plenty of space for contributors to move around within that framework.

It does probably require people to be a bit more independent and not just lean on their boss to show them the way, but that’s part of the DAO/DeFi context we are in I think.

10 Likes

I’m very sympathetic to @joaobrunoah’s comments. I can see how this proposal and conversation in general might feel very uncomfortable or like an attack for those who work at Orb. It might not help to say it but this proposal is not intended to single out individual Orb employees and anyone who wants to continue contributing to Balancer should make their intentions known and every effort will be made to help you transition into another service provider. Please don’t hesitate to reach out to me, anyone at the Maxis, or Daniel. The nature of our DAO model and the fact that Orb represented the largest SP by far make this kind of offboarding particularly tricky - however, every effort should be made to provide transparency and clarity for the ecosystem. I’d say this public dialogue, while perhaps painful, is a positive step.

My view is a three month transition would do more harm than good. I think the rest of May should be sufficient for Orb employees to be placed with another SP or offboard from the ecosystem and for Orb operations to be shuttered (if the intention is to shut down the company). Orb should be fully funded for the month of May, after which all payments authorized under BIP-20 should be cancelled. If operational funding is required for June and beyond for some reason a proposal can be made for that. Again I want to reiterate that any Orb employee wishing to continue contributing to Balancer should reach out to me/other Maxis/Daniel ASAP to make that known so we can start working with you on it immediately.

That said, I would update the “Specification” section for this vote to the following:

  • All future payments to Orb authorized under BIP-20 and BIP-197 are halted (Orb should already have gotten paid for May). Orb can present to governance a proposal to cover costs associated with the winding down of the company at their discretion.

  • Orb employees should immediately begin transitioning any active projects to other SP’s. This means inviting contributors from Maxis/Beets to any external communication channels with 3rd parties immediately.

  • Access to Slack and Notion will be removed for all Orb employees who have not started the onboarding process with another SP as of May 31st. These Orb employees must remove themselves from any external communication channels related to Balancer.

  • OpCo is mandated to return the DAO treasury any and all remaining USDC funds allocated for Orb’s funding under BIP-20, any remaining BAL allocated to Orb under BIP-38, and any “savings” which have accumulated during the last year. For those funds which were acquired as a result of BIP-197, OpCo must present a clear accounting of these funds in lieu of returning them to the Treasury. Both of these items must be done within 30 days.

I think there’s an argument to be made that this should go to a vote this week so there will be more than two weeks from the date the vote passes to the end of May but I also recognize some might desire a longer/more in depth discussion period. That could result in only a week from the time the vote passes to the end of May.

5 Likes

@solarcurve I appreciate your voice here and the desire to provide clarity on this proposal, but I have to disagree quite strongly with a couple of points.

My view is a three month transition would do more harm than good. I think the rest of May should be sufficient for Orb employees to be placed with another SP or offboard from the ecosystem and for Orb operations to be shuttered (if the intention is to shut down the company). Orb should be fully funded for the month of May, after which all payments authorized under BIP-20 should be cancelled.

This would be a serious breach of BIP-20, which explicitly requests a 3-month buffer. The Balancer DAO previously approved BIP-20 for execution, so it is now faced with a precedent-setting question: is the DAO’s token-weighted word as good as its bond or just a casual signal to be rescinded at a later date?

I think there’s an argument to be made that this should go to a vote this week

This proposal should absolutely not be voted this week because:

  1. As mentioned above, the decision may set a critical precedent for the DAO which ripples through all future agreements.
  2. The DAO’s largest SP should not be defunded so nonchalantly. As an Orb employee, I’m not going to take a position here; please feel free to defund us if that is the preferred path. But do not make that decision lightly; dedicate some time to this discussion.
  3. Rushing votes to Snapshot has been a key criticism recently levied against Orb, so it would be a shame to repeat that mistake here.
10 Likes

BIP 1 clearly states anyone can bring a proposal to stop funding an SP with immediate effect. If governance has proven anything it is that a future BIP can override a previously passed one. Any SP that signals their intent to dissolve should be promptly off boarded instead of continuing to exist for three months with zero accountability.

Orb can easily present a proposal for June and July funding. This proposal passing to halt funding does not preclude funding being provided in a future BIP.

I think it’s important there are two weeks from passing to off boarding date. While rushing is never ideal it is justified in this case imo. Voters are free to disagree as always.

7 Likes

This proposal/thread doesn’t smell right, it’s asking to give sweeping powers to a brand new SP that only started days ago and accuses their competing SP of not being financially transparent even though they have a long public history of sharing financial reports, amd now members of another SP are trying to rush this to be voted on after its been live for only a day. These dirty political power games are what destroys Defi projects. Hate to see it happening here not only cause balancer is great tech but this was supposed to be one of the pioneers of decentralization

1 Like

I agree that it would be better to let this sit another week before going to snapshot/there are still some questions around the specification/etc.

In general I am of the opinion that voters should not support BIPs that have been brought to snapshot without having a little time to breath on the forum (at a couple days without ongoing conversation/changes).

Balancer governance is now structured such that anyone with over 200k veBAL can post a vote on a Thursday. If someone chooses to do that, it is up to veBAL voters to decide if the BIP has had enough time for conversation and makes sense and should pass.

@rabmarut as a leader of a team at Orb, I don’t think you should feel like you can’t speak as to why this BIIP shouldn’t pass and/or as to the value that the integration team is bringing to the DAO and what we are losing with your departure.

As @solarcurve pointed out, there is also plenty of space to make a proposal to fire up a new SP if you and your team are not onboard with Orbs decision to stop providing services to Balancer maybe it makes more sense to focus on a proposal to continue doing your work or somehow transition your team?

4 Likes

Hi, nice to see you guys from Orbs expressing yourself on the forum!

Unfortunately, I and many other devs had a hard time seeing you guys on the discord, to answer basic questions, which are the bread and butter of devrel in crypto. I guess you were too busy solving “communication issues”, probably?

Decentralized finance is finance, and after all, is and should be driven by market forces. Orbs have been an underperforming SP given the sky-high costs it was asking BalancerDAO to cover. Was it incompetence? Was it grift, like it happens in so many other DAOs nowadays?

We’ll never know, however, protecting the DAO means putting an end to this show, replacing a weak team with another one. Yes, probably, Orbs devs are made of pure chadium, 10x ninjas trained in North Korea high-security facilities to code ZK swaps in assembly. However, under the current organization, they’re not put to their best use, if not useless. Either devs can move to the new team, if both parties decide to mingle together, or they can part and create their next DAO, LLM, coffee shop in Lisbon, whatever makes them happy.

In any case, this move is needed, for the protocol’s sake. There have been warnings, it’s not coming out of nowhere. The “Balancer has great tech” ship has sailed, I hear a lot about TraderJoe, Uniswap, Camelot, Maverick and other competitors, much less about Balancer nowadays. Yeah, the field is moving, or more, racing, and we can’t afford to turn a blind eye and hope people will be responsible at some point with no oversight whatsoever. доверяй, но проверяй

Other DAOs have done it. Then, one day, you see the RFV team pop into your discord, and another kind of fun game starts. So please, let’s be grown-ups, accept that there has been a failure here, and move on. The rest is pilpul around governance, adding 0 to Balancer.

3 Likes

This would be a serious breach of BIP-20, which explicitly requests a 3-month buffer. The Balancer DAO previously approved BIP-20 for execution, so it is now faced with a precedent-setting question: is the DAO’s token-weighted word as good as its bond or just a casual signal to be rescinded at a later date?

Let’s not forget that BIP-20 is a two-way agreement. In it, Orb highlighted success metrics for all departments, which is the only source of truth that any veBAL holder should care about.

If Orb can prove that their performance-to-date based on the success metrics they laid out in BIP-20 for each department were fulfilled competently and in good faith, meaning that it was acting honestly and with a reasonable degree of skill and care in performing their obligations, then I believe the DAO should honour its end.

However, if Orb has failed to fulfil their obligations competently, was acting in bad faith or engaged in fraudulent conduct, then the DAO has every right to void this agreement.

8 Likes

While there is probably some truth in some of the things you say, I found this post insensitive enough to the human side of all of this that I felt the need to say something.

Please be considerate the people involved here and what they are going through.

Blaming leadership for failures is one thing. Demeaning an entire team(and the individuals in it) when they are being put under this kind of pressure/stress is bad form ser.

Stating that the tech in the ecosystem you are participating in, and play a role in governing(you’re on the Aura council right), is falling behind, is something you should put a lot more thought into before posting on a public Forum.

There is nothing “constructive” about any of this criticism.

6 Likes

The market isn’t concerned about our feelings. Saying the things with the utmost precautions apparently didn’t work, so I guess someone has to be brutally honest at some point and remind everyone of what reality is. I have no grudge against the people at Orb, my comment is more about a situation that has degenerated into something suboptimal.

The work has to be done at some point – blaming the leadership is a convenient way to shirk one’s responsibilities, especially in such small orgs. I took the example of answering in Discord, since everyone in the tech team can do it, but no one does – you do (thanks!).

Balancer is paying top 1%-world compensation – of course, this comes with some expectations, and some risk. This risk is realizing now.

And regarding the tech – the field is indeed moving very fast, and Balancer can’t afford to ignore this. The best teams are fighting in the arena to come up with the best designs, and Balancer can’t rest on its laurels. Not telling an olympic gold medalist that he’ll have to train harder if he wants to keep his title isn’t doing him any service.

If you want a wake-up call, a new dex with 0 incentives generated a larger volume than Balancer last week. Let that sink in.

2 Likes

I believe there’s already a consensus being built on the specification, so I don’t see a reason for this conversation to be heated up. We could potentially meet everyone’s expectations, safeguarding our governance process, previous agreements and saving funds all at the same time.

Overriding things with new specifications doesn’t seem fair in this scenario, imo. Governance can vote on it, but then a dissolution between DAO vs. Orb would be one-sided and might be conflictful. At the same time, it wouldn’t be reasonable for Orb to keep all of its staff and current costs for another 2.5 months just to offboard, specially if employees are being absorbed by another SP.

Best-case scenario is Orb coming forward with a viable offboarding plan for them, that is also costly-efficient and expedited enough to favor DAO governance (and as proposed by @immutbl, should be coming on Friday). If we do so and everyone’s happy, we can execute on the needed transactions and transitions, calling it the day.

11 Likes

This proposal isn’t intended to move employees or contributors from one SP to another or to require any current Orb personnel to work for any particular SP as part of the transition. It merely analyzes Orb’s performance, especially its leadership, and suggests a potential party to work in collaboration with OpCo and the Balancer Foundation to help oversee the winding down of Orb and to provide assistance with the transition of its employees performing critical services who want to continue their work within the Balancer ecosystem. As mentioned by other commenters, we would expect further discussions between individuals and SPs, both current and new, to retain Orb employees under structure and leadership that supports growth and innovation for Balancer.

The conclusion here seems incongruent with the points that lead up to it. The agreement between Balancer and Orb (supported by BIP-20 and their SLA) have clauses for reconsideration/termination. Budgets from Orb are also often not voted upon - they are presented to the community by Orb leadership simply for its review in the manner outlined in the proposal. There have been many issues raised on the forum over the last 9 months concerning Orb’s performance, reporting, and its budget. This history and the fact this discussion is happening here, in advance, and will be voted upon by all of Balancer governance, is the very basis of decentralization.

Furthermore, @solarcurve has suggested that future payments to Orb beyond May 31 be presented on the forum and voted on by Balancer governance. It seems that if Orb or any of those affected by the transition, especially its personnel, have an interest in being more involved in the process or with any future transition payment authorizations, then those issues should be raised collaboratively by working to craft a plan and proposal that would be submitted to Balancer governance, discussed, and then voted on. @immutbl has stated he will provide a deliverable by this Friday. If any current Orb personnel have thoughts about how he should approach this process and the deliverable that is being crafted, would like to raise funding concerns, or have concerns about ops issues that should be addressed as part of the transition, then it would be appropriate to raise them with Orb leadership (by helping to craft and refine the deliverable that is being created), raise them here on the forum or as individuals / a separate group by way of a similarly-crafted proposal or even RFC, and with any other SPs who will be involved in the process.

This path would speed up this transition, which is in the best interest of the Balancer community. We are willing to support this change of specifications in the proposal, and will be preparing the fully fleshed out version to go to vote next week.

6 Likes

My perspective as an Orb employee (and former Balancer Labs employee), and as someone who wishes to remain in the community moving forward:

First, I think it’s totally fair if veBAL holders choose not to fund Orb Collective moving forward if they believe the work wasn’t up to expectations. Working as an SP for a DAO is privilege and the output should be scrutinized and voted on by members with the most skin in the game.

However, I don’t think it’s fair to insinuate that Orb did not act in good faith. It’s hard to have a healthy community discourse on this topic with this type of unverified innuendo. I’m open to learning, so if anyone, especially regular day-to-day contributors, have any anecdotes or evidence of Orb acting in bad faith, please provide examples.

Integrations is the team most affected by this proposal, so I’d like to provide some further insight into the reality of their year which may not be widely known in the community. Orb spent the majority of its engineering time allocated to the Managed Pools product, which was set as a key priority for the year by Balancer ecosystem leaders. This work was performed under immense time pressure with a deadline driven by a partner. Unfortunately, after a significant time investment, this project was later deprioritized by ecosystem leaders as other products like Generalized boosted pools showed more traction and promise.

In an emerging dynamic industry like DeFi, the reality is that you often work at the edge of innovation. Some products, like Managed Pools, that seemed promising 6 months ago, lose their appeal upon further analysis. That is fine. As a DAO, we have to live with the fact that some work will be discontinued when other opportunities shine brighter.

Because of the amount of work which never saw the light of day, I can understand community frustration around Orb’s output here. However, I truly believe that Orb acted in good faith and with the Balancer’s ecosystem best interest by working on the prioritized projects. Engineering specifically produced a lot of innovative work on Managed Pools (including the creation of novel DeFi features like Guardians) and produced Pool Controllers for Index Coop that were audited.

To Jeremy’s credit here, in probably his biggest test, I believe he acted in good faith and in the best interests of the Balancer ecosystem by agreeing to adjust the plan, to deprioritize Managed Pools, (even though it would be against his personal interest by severely reducing the impact of Orb’s output for the year). It’s healthy to be critical of leadership and performance, and Orb certainly had it’s failings. However, I find the insinuation of him not acting in good faith to be unfair in the absence of evidence.

17 Likes